mlah The ďcultureĒ that has evolved here isnít conducive to sissies

March 15, 2006

The Wall

Filed under: Politics — mlah @ 11:17 pm

so what do y’all think of the propsed construction of walls along our southern border?

personally, i really do believe that we have to take control of our border. if we do not, we cease to exist as a nation. now i know some of y’all are posing as post-modernists in an effort to deconstruct the state. but put that aside.

what do you think about the sovereignty of our nation? and what about our right as a nation to control our border? this is not a question of whether or not we should allow immigration, but rather a question about whether or not we should control it.

some of you are going to decry the wall. but mind you, the wall the israelis built has virtually stopped the suicide bombings it was forced to endure pre-wall. it accomplishe dit’s goal. i don’t think a wall by itself is an answer. my desire for 50’s mounted spatially along the wall won’t fly. i’ll have to settle for increased surveillance and patrol.

at least we could slow the drug smugglers,

and i demand that we attack any and all incursions by mexican military units onto our territory. if you didn’t know that was happening, you need to read some more. they tend to help not just illegal immigrants, but drug and human smugglers as well.

build a wall.

22 Comments »

  1. Good fences make good neighbors.

    Comment by The Holywriter — March 16, 2006 @ 1:26 am

  2. I don’t care. A wall would help keep illegals (and maybe even terrorists) out. That’d be fine with me.
    As I understand it, Bush has been wishy-washy on this because some business interests like to keep their costs down by using illegals, which makes sense. Is that an accurate statement?

    Comment by trick_shot_f-in_cheney — March 16, 2006 @ 2:26 am

  3. Gus, how can you be FOR the wall in the US when you were AGAINST the wall in Israel? Huh? Are you practicing to be the next John Kerry?

    Comment by yup — March 16, 2006 @ 3:32 am

  4. What kind of wall? An Israili type concrete wall or the type of wall we already have in San Diego? The one in San Diego sucks. And how are animals going to get back and forth? Will we have say half-mile openings every now and then that are observed and allow animals to pass but are open fire zones otherwise? There are indian tribes on the border as well that have have communities on both sides of the border. Do they get a sort of squared off wall-within-a-wall area? I’m all for securing the border, but I think there are are a lot issues that need to be resolved first.

    Comment by Mark — March 16, 2006 @ 10:22 am

  5. Great idea. Build it.

    P.S.: it took a lot of control to not make a chinese person joke there.

    Comment by medium john — March 16, 2006 @ 12:24 pm

  6. “Gus, how can you be FOR the wall in the US when you were AGAINST the wall in Israel?”
    I have nothing against the Israeli wall for its self-defense purpose, but the way they fudged the borders was a defacto land grab. Presumably any US wall will not surround patches of Mexican territory, dumbshit.

    Comment by trick_shot_f-in_cheney — March 16, 2006 @ 3:25 pm

  7. gus, your defacto land grab is a non issue. like it or not. whether the palestinians like it or not. or AI, or france germany or anyone. israel owns the west bank, and the gaza strip until they say so.

    your land grab would be related to the us moving the boundaries of kansas pre statehood. it was us territory.

    the palestinians were guaranteed land by a UN deal in 1948. THEY refused the deal.

    israel draws the map however they choose. who’s going to stop them? the palestinians?

    Comment by mlah — March 16, 2006 @ 7:02 pm

  8. “your land grab would be related to the us moving the boundaries of kansas pre statehood”

    Whatever, jerkoff. Yup started in with the apples v. oranges comparison, not me.

    “gus, your defacto land grab is a non issue.”

    As everyone feared, acting PM Ehud Olmert recently said that, if elected, he and his party intend to basically use the path of the Wall for the drafting of permanent borders. They always denied this before.

    The Israeli Supreme Court made the gov’t alter the route in 2004 and 2005 decisions. They have some standards in place when it comes to security v. hardship in these matters, unlike you.

    Why are you even more anti-Palestinian than Master Terrorist Hunter GWB? He at least said:
    “I think the wall is a problem. And I discussed this with Ariel Sharon. It is very difficult to develop confidence between the Palestinians and Israel with a wall snaking through the West Bank” (2003);
    and
    that it “should be a security rather than political barrier, should be temporary rather than permanent and therefore not prejudice any final status issues including final borders, and its route should take into account, consistent with security needs, its impact on Palestinians not engaged in terrorist activities.”

    Comment by trick_shot_f-in_cheney — March 17, 2006 @ 1:19 am

  9. Of course, the “Palestinians” today were almost all born in their “refugee camps.” They refused to evacuate the land as their peers did, and move to Jordan (whose King said HIS country was “Palestine”). Or elsewhere in the Levant or Middle East — which of course was difficult seeing how the rest of the Arab world refused to accept them; even our “moderate” allies Kuwait expelled all the Palestinains. They refused to swear allegiance to Israel in order to live there as free citizens (as many, many Muslims do). Ironic, isn’t it, since the Jews were expelled from a lot of Arab countries and welcomed into Israel.

    The West Bank is Israel’s territory by right of history and conquest. Jerusalem wasn’t important to the Muslims in antiquity until they decided to try to wrest the territory from the Jews (then suddenly it became the “third most important religious site in Islam”). A century ago the land was sparsely populated desert, mostly peopled by Jewish settlers, under the Ottoman Empire. Since 1948, three times their Muslim neighbors have waged war against them, and three times they have soundly whooped ass on those neighbors. The neighbors lost any right to claim that land by their continuing stupidity in attacking Israel. How Israel decides to partition the West Bank is up to — Israel. Not Hamas, not Syria, not the UN. Israel.

    Is Mlah “anti-Palestinian?” Perhaps just against their cause; it’s hard to have any sympathy for a people who refuse to assimilate, refuse to relocate, refuse to acknowledge their defeat and insist on continuing violence in an unwinnable cause against a state that has soundly defeated them time and again, bringing more death and estruction as a result of their own actions. The Palestinians prevent Jews from worshipping at their holiest site (the Temple of Solomon) while quietly and actively trying to eradicate all vestiges of historic Jewish ownership of Jerusalem (most obvious example is their pillaging of ruins of the Temple of Solomon) while ensuring their own al Aksa shrine remains in the public eye — in Yugoslavia we termed such actions “ethnic cleansing” and used that as casus belli. The Palestinians were offered nearly all of what they were demanding in the Wye Peace confab (pretty area, if you’ve never driven over to see it), and turned it down without thought, because they chose political violence over diplomatic peace. Yup, really hard to have any sympathy for them at all.

    Comment by yup — March 17, 2006 @ 5:27 am

  10. “Is Mlah “anti-Palestinian?” Perhaps just against their cause”

    No, this stuff affects the contemporary & future living/working populations, not their political leaders. Why are you guys more hardline than Bush and the Israeli Supreme Court? Because you drank somebody’s kool-aid. Your analysis is criminally one-sided.

    Let’s get back to the potential wall on our border with Mexico. I asked a question about Bush’s illegal immigrant policy or lack thereof. Please discuss.

    Comment by trick_shot_f-in_cheney — March 17, 2006 @ 11:22 pm

  11. you hear that Mlah? We’ve been branded criminals by the Leftist!

    Oh yah, those poor Palestinian people, it’s all their leaders’ fault! None of them were out dancing in the streets by the 100s of thousands on 9/11. None of them are reveling in the slaughter of innocent Jewish girls at ice cream shops. None of them are trying to burn down the embassies of Denmark et al. Nope. Those are all the leaders of their “country” doing that. The people are innocent lambs.

    Too bad those poor innocents don’t have free elections so they can vote out the bad leaders, those who advocate death and destruction against Israel. Nope, they were suckered into voting for leaders even more hardline than those terrorists in Fatah, and ended up with those terrorists Hamas. They were forced into it by those evil leaders. No, wait, they were forced into it by Israel! Yeah, that’s it. Israel made them do it!

    You ready to buy that bridge I’m selling, Gus?

    Comment by yup — March 18, 2006 @ 12:21 pm

  12. OK, back to the Wall. We could use it as a huge works program, so we can get our unemployment rate to a reasonable level, since it’s so darn high right now. Heck, I think 1% unemployment is doable with a giant Wall!

    We could set up a kill zone, anything weighing more than 5 pounds will be shot to death (thus allowing free migration to butterflies, ducks and frogs). The dead bodies, of course, could be left to rot, thereby turning the arid land into a lush oasis, and perhaps even leaving some fresh new top soil available to ship off to Oklahoma.

    But Gus, by approving of the Wall you are showing yourself to be a hateful, racist xenophobe. You do know that, right?

    Comment by yup — March 18, 2006 @ 12:26 pm

  13. “Oh yah, those poor Palestinian people, it’s all their leaders’ fault! None of them were out dancing in the streets by the 100s of thousands on 9/11.”
    If one of them has committed some crime, by all means charge them and try them. But under international law, the population under a military occupation cannot be punished *collectively* as you (and, often, Israel) so charmingly suggest. I’ll ask you one more time: why are you more hardline than the Israeli Supreme Court and GWB? Answer: cuz you are an asshole. The Wall is more than its originally stated intent of security, or do you deny that? You seem to pretend that no innocent Palestinians have ever been screwed or killed by Israel or its citizens, or only in defense, which makes you quite sick and wrong.
    The settlements have always been illegal, so your support of them puts you on the wrong side of multiple UN resolutions.
    Who did you think was going to get elected in Palestinian elections, which we pushed for? The corrupt terrorists or the honest terrorists? It’s progress, actually, just like Iraq’s religious Shiites, who would love to impose shariah, being better than Saddam. Don’t worry your pretty little head, everyone’s keeping their eyes on Hamas– just because they got in doesn’t mean terrorism will increase. They can either evolve or find themselves very lonely, we’ll see what happens.

    Last chance to answer: what is Bush’s immigration policy, and how do you feel about it?

    Comment by trick_shot_f-in_cheney — March 19, 2006 @ 1:42 am

  14. i fear that bush’s immigration policy is the same as so many policies liberals formulated before him. sit on the fence and see which way the wind blows. doesn’t happen often with him, sao enjoy it. he want’s to grandfather those here already to buy votes. a trick he learned from you libs. but he wants to be tough on it only because he is finally beginning to realize how unpopular it is.

    paletinians? israelis wronging them. man they’ve both been doing such horrendous things for so long, no-one knows who started it anymore.

    settlements were illegal? no. they weren’t. wall is used for more than security? like what? because no. that’s all it’s done.

    Comment by mlah — March 19, 2006 @ 3:15 am

  15. oooh, shivers up my spine. last chance, Gus tells me. then what? you send the thought police to arrest me? because you have labeled me a criminal, it’s all right here in black and white. You are now giving me ultimatims. Gee, you’re now with the Nazis and KGB, Gus?

    You claim all sorts of crimes here, Gus. Give me legal justification for each and every such contention, please. Else you’re no better than Hitler and Stalin. Fool.

    Comment by yup — March 19, 2006 @ 9:18 am

  16. “the same as so many policies liberals formulated before him. sit on the fence and see which way the wind blows. …. he want’s to grandfather those here already to buy votes. a trick he learned from you libs.”

    Rii-iight. Most politicians play that game most of the time. “Read my lips. No new taxes!” -GHWB

    “wall is used for more than security? like what? ”
    For the reason GWB mentioned above– that it would create “facts on the ground” when final borders are to be decided on. Sharon denied it for years, now Olmert has come clean. Read up here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier

    “settlements were illegal? no. they weren’t.”

    The Fourth Geneva Convention forbids an “Occupying Power” to “transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies” (article 49(6)).
    The establishment and expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip has been described as illegal by the UN Security Council many times, for example in resolutions 446, 452, 465 and 471.
    An official Israeli government report published on March 8, 2005 revealed that Israeli state bodies have been secretly diverting millions of shekels to build West Bank settlements and outposts which were illegal under Israeli law.

    “You are now giving me ultimatims. Gee, you’re now with the Nazis and KGB, Gus?”

    That’s right, Yupster. But how did you find out about my diabolical plan? Curses…
    It’s spelled “ultimatum”. Plurally, I think either “ultimata” or “ultimatums” is acceptable. I’ve got the contacts in the Spelling Police, as well…
    My only threat is that I’m gonna throw up my hands in frustration at your inability to keep on subject.

    Comment by trick_shot_f-in_cheney — March 21, 2006 @ 3:04 am

  17. OK Nazi Gus, I did answer your question. I did stay on topic. And I also disputed the crap you’re spewing. And you focus on a single letter in all of those things to disparage me?

    Shuks, guess I just can’t hope to debate with the superior int’lects like you on the Left.

    (‘My country right or wrong’ is discredited reactionary screed — today the Left practices ‘my ideology right or wrong,’ although it’s been amended to read ‘my ideology uber alles.’)

    Comment by yup — March 21, 2006 @ 3:45 am

  18. “I did stay on topic.”
    Ha. Except for your little (very little) excuses for jokes, no, you only talked in a tiresome manner about Israel/Palestine, which really has nothing to do with Mlah’s post. It’s all there in blue and white!

    “And you focus on a single letter in all of those things to disparage me? ”
    You’re clearly not paying attention. That’s the least of my reasons for disparaging you. Your violently pro-Israeli viewpoint is clearly not going to dissipate anytime soon, not with all the info in the world, so I shan’t be discussing it with you again.

    Comment by trick_shot_f-n_cheney — March 21, 2006 @ 10:24 pm

  19. oh Allah be praised, can I hold you to that Gus?

    Comment by yup — March 22, 2006 @ 5:42 am

  20. gussie gus.

    1. yup mispelled ultimatum. get over it. not like you’ve never misspelled anything here before.

    2. israel is not transferring it’s population to land it occupies. it OWNS the west bank. Jordan occupied it at the end of the 48 war. illegally. annexed it. illegally.

    3. i have many times laughed at the falseness of wiki. democrat staffers have been proven to be filling it with purposely false and misleading propaganda.

    4. the un. holds no water any longer. it has been sidelined by it’s inability. quoting it’s resolutions mean nothing to me.

    leviation is gone gus. it is falling by the wayside as the leaders of foreign nations prove to be the vile little creatures they really are.

    Comment by mlah — March 22, 2006 @ 10:26 pm

  21. “1. yup mispelled ultimatum. get over it. not like youíve never misspelled anything here before.”

    I’ve made a handful typos (in the couple years I’ve been hanging out here), which is different than obviously not knowing how to spell something.

    “2. israel is not transferring itís population to land it occupies. it OWNS the west bank.”

    Bullcrap! The West Bank does not belong to any country. Look it up, liar/idiot (whichever applies in this case).
    The Israeli Supreme Court calls them “the Occupied Territories”, even hardline Israelis call them “the disputed territories”. A military occupation does not confer ownership and if you believe otherwise, you are very alone. A majority of signatories to the Geneva Conventions in 2001 also called out Israel on settlements being illegal. Or are those too “quaint” now?

    “3. i have many times laughed at the falseness of wiki. democrat staffers have been proven to be filling it with purposely false and misleading propaganda.”

    I do not believe you. Show me the proof.
    Or just point out any errors you think they made in the link above. You can’t just throw out the baby with any tainted bathwater there may be. I just read an article about how, on science topics specifically, Wikipedia was just as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica. If articles on more controversial subjects are in question, they are clearly marked as such.

    “4. the un. holds no water any longer. it has been sidelined by itís inability. quoting itís resolutions mean nothing to me.”

    The Resolutions which I referred to (and which still hold) came from 1979 and 1980, and they were unanimous. Did you have a problem with the UN then? The Right (maybe you, too, I don’t recall) brought up UNSC Resolutions when they defended going into Iraq, so you can’t just pick and choose when you feel like it.

    “leviation is gone gus.”
    What the fuck is “leviation”, besides a spelling error?

    Comment by trick_shot_f-in_cheney — March 25, 2006 @ 2:21 am

  22. this new format certainly makes it easier for me to look at all Gus’ links. Just don’t get carried away now, Gus, or I’ll have to start giving you links to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Not that I expect you’ll actually look into opposing viewpoints, since you’re one of those Leftists so convinced of his own superiority as not to be challenged.

    leviathan, as was pointed out to me in a, erm, “discussion” with a libertarian extremist, is the term used for pervasive government. taken from the Bible and applied politically in Hobbes’ book of the same name. also played a prominent role in the 1970s classic “The Illuminatus! Trilogy” which I would be certain someone as cutlured and lettered as yourself would have devoured as light reading for an amusing afternoon.

    again, Mr Gus, I bow to your superiority in all things over me and the people I know, and pray that you will lead us into the World of Tomorrow where we will all live in harmony and sing kumbaya around a solar-powered campfire. /sarcasm off

    Comment by yup — March 25, 2006 @ 5:57 am

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