mlah The “culture” that has evolved here isn’t conducive to sissies

August 31, 2004

Snopes

Filed under: Politics — mlah @ 9:56 pm

snopes has lost my respect.

they have chosen sides in the election. and the candidate of their choice if john carrie.

i’ve used their site in the past to check out various urban legends and have pretty much trusted their findings.

not any more. i am totally disappointed with their research.

you see, i finally decided to go out on the web and see if i could actually find a copy of carrie’s purple heart citations, his bronze or silver star write ups.

i wanted to see for myself just exaclty what they said.

i wanted to make my own judgement.

so i googled “kerry purple heart citation”, and lo, there was snopes in the return.

they have concluded that the urban legend of “John Kerry’s Vietnam War service medals (a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts) were earned under “fishy” circumstances. ” was false.

fair enough. i want facts, not some asshole’s decision made for me. i want to see the citations.

look at what snopes cites as evidence.

carrie’s own personal recollections

his bronze star citation is allegedly signed by admiral zumwalt (i want to SEE his signature).

the boston globe — newspapers columns are not proof.

i’m really getting tired of people trying to make my decisions for me. i was IN the navy. and i was in the navy longer than carrie was. i’ve written awards myself. i’m familiar with what they are like. i also know that every award has an additional memorandum with it that justifies the award. the actual citation is just pretty. just for the award stand.

somebody, if you have a url to the actual citations, please let me know.

some people say he’s skated, some say it is ‘proven’ false.

i want to see the proof. i keep hearing about officla navy documents ‘prove’ the swiftie allegations false.

SHOW ME THE MONEY, mother fuckers!

Update, i’ve seen the first purple heart citation now. it is a real short little blurb, and only says that he got the award. doesn’t say what happened, only that he received the award. this is a long way from ‘proving’ he earned it.

here is a link to all of carrie’s awards. i haven’t found anythinf in there yet that proves a thing except that the navy awarded him medals.

8 Comments »

  1. so snopes knows their shit on Everything else except this? how could that be?

    maybe they dont know their shit on everything else.

    maybe nobody does.

    but also maybe the navy knows what theyre doing when they give out purple hearts. maybe if there was even one document out of order it would have been exposed by the unlimited funds and resources of the current administration.

    only reason the completely unprecidented thought ever got in your head that this vietnam veteran did not fully earn his medals after being in the gnarliest freaking WAR america has ever been in is because this administration are ruthless and desperate.

    while you look for “records” that would discredit kerry’s never-before questioned military past, take a good look at what’s missing from our president’s records

    namely three months that he was so high on coke that he refused to take his physical because he knew it would mean that he would get kicked out of the guard, dishonorably. so instead he laid low and snaked out.

    here are the records (http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp) side by side. look at how the president tries to transfer into non-combat and defunct troops while kerry volunteered for nam.

    bush is nothing

    and less to support.

    Comment by tony — August 31, 2004 @ 10:37 pm

  2. Mlah,

    I think you should check this site out. It’s an article by Victor Davis Hanson(Republican) who has given the most sane, believable, intelligent discussion of all of these ‘siwftboat’ story tales.

    I hope you will read it:
    http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson200408270843.asp

    Comment by Peach — September 1, 2004 @ 3:14 am

  3. tony has gone off on his own rant about Vietnam service (or lack thereof) — all the while conveniently forgetting Bubba’s entire draft dodging scheme during the period — and cites a screed page as his “proof.” And tony’s professional background for examining the candidates’ respective military service is? Probably the same as Gus’. Ain’t got none. (Or are you going to tell us, tony, that you have been there and done that in a swift boat, or in a jet fighter? Sure you did.)

    I checked out the documentation provided on the JfK campaign site. The “official” documentation, not some screed put out by a 527. Purple Hearts notwithstanding, I am a bit confused why there are two different citations for the Bronze Star. Both given for action on 13 March 1969, the first signed by Zumwalt in Vietnam, and the second signed by SECNAV Lehman. Which was decades later. WTF????

    As the article in National Review points out, the JfK campaign invited this level of scrutiny when it was strangely mute in response to Moveon.org’s attacks on the President’s Vietnam era service. Kizmet, Kerry. tony doesn’t like this (you a Moveon-er, tony?). Tough. It’s part of the national debate. The only reason this is so is because the JfK campaign had pinned their message on that 1/180th portion of the candidate’s life: LT(jg) Kerry is more fit to be Commander-in-Chief because of his heroic service in Vietnam.

    Hell, even W acknowledges that JfK’s service was more heroic than his own. But as the article points out, it’s what JfK did when he RETURNED from Vietnam that has everyone so riled up.

    Of course the whole point of the article is that we should just ignore the whole medal controversy, and the actions of a misguided young man upon his return to civilization. Just remember that JfK served honorably and let it go at that. You all do that, if you want. I bet tony won’t (he’ll still cling to his vision of W as a boozer living ‘high’ in the States while his candidate was riding a patrol in the Mekong). Same for the rest of JfK’s rabid supporters.

    Comment by yup — September 1, 2004 @ 6:15 am

  4. Anyone who starts out their presidential campaign citing military war hero experience should be prepared to put forward the paperwork. Just as if you claim to be a doctor, you’d better have the lambskins that prove you graduated and went to medical school.

    Since Kerry has already lied and been caught in the lie about his Christmas in combat, why wouldn’t any thinking reasoning American question any other part of his military record?

    Madame Butterfly

    Comment by Madame Butterfly — September 1, 2004 @ 5:42 pm

  5. Snopes gets it right about 70% of the time. I have seen them waffle on things, because of course, they have the same research resources we have.

    None of this is, of course, pertinent to the military situation now, at which Kerry has amply demonstrated his incompetence.

    Comment by og — September 1, 2004 @ 11:10 pm

  6. Peach-

    VDH is a registered Democrat but is a social conserative. If you enjoyed that article and want to see or hear more check out these links:

    BookTV Interview 3/7/04
    http://booktv.org/indepth/index.asp?segid=4377&schedID=254

    http://victorhanson.com/

    Great stuff. I have been trying to get yup to read it regularly, but he keeps avoiding the conversation…

    Comment by RojoXia — September 1, 2004 @ 11:55 pm

  7. Check this out! I’m already against Kerry for Pres, but this just cements it in for me…good reading by Oliver North…

    http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ollienorth/welcome.shtml

    zoomie

    Comment by zoomie — September 2, 2004 @ 8:01 pm

  8. OK, so I have ziffed off an email to the Snopes folks asking them to do additional research on the issue, since they only cited published accounts (such as JfK’s book) as their sources. Suggested they check out the official records of the U.S. military.

    Ironically, the DoD has announced that the Secretary of the Navy has been notified of need for investigation into the medals. Seems Mr Lehman doesn’t know why his signature is on JfK’s citations (Silver Star in addition to Bronze, apparently), which were reissued a number of years after the originals.

    Apropos of nothing, there was a Navy Captain (that’s equivalent to a full Colonel) who was recently sentanced to the brig (prison) for falsely wearing medals he hadn’t been awarded. Tsk tsk.

    Comment by yup — September 3, 2004 @ 8:39 am

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