mlah The culture that has evolved here isnt conducive to sissies

June 16, 2004


Filed under: Politics — mlah @ 4:15 pm

j f’n kerry. i was reading bill’s blog over on indc journal and came across the link he has for the “swiftboat veterans for truth” link and watched the news conference they held. it was a pretty comprehensive fielding of swiftboat captains who served with kerry in vietnam. i don’t think any of them had anything good to say about kerry either.

they pretty unanimously decried kerry’s claims that they committed war crimes. after all, kerry claimed to have witnessed villages being burned, without provocation, women being raped, and non-combatants being shot.

who does kerry claim committed these acts. to the best of my knowledge, kerry has never been able to cite a single specific instance.

but for the men who were swiftboat commanders in the same unit, they are the accused. kerry has not said it straight out. he has not pointed his finger and uttered their names, but who else did he see in vietnam? which other american units did kerry have the ability to watch? was he out spying on the SeALs? i think not.

the swiftboat captains were pretty clear in their message.

they were a collection of democrats and republicans. conservatives and liberals without a political agenda. without an agenda except for their claim that jf kerry is unfit for the office of commander in chief.

one old sailor, who gave his name as Captain Lanzio (???) was the task group commander (kerry’s boss), and had two main points to make about the junior senator from taxachussets.

1. he’s a liar. he cites the referenced ‘conference’ that kerry claims to have had with him regarding atrocities. capt lanzio said this reference is complete fiction. he says that what kerry calls a conference was actually a large group of officers sitting around bs’ing at the o-club, and the word atrocity was never mentioned.

2. kerry’s claim that their mission was a complete and total failure is bs. captain lanzio cites the fact that most places in the immdeiate are of his service were off limits due to enemy activity when he arrived, and that by the time of his departure, he was fairly free to move about, observing that commerce had visibly picked up, the river was replete with sanpans loaded with goods for sale.

j f’n kerry would have you believe none of that was true.

as for the real JFK, who can’t like him? single largest peacetime military buildup in US history. bigger than reagan. hell, reagan had a 600 ship navy. jfk had over 1,000.

around my blog world,

Venomous Kate has noted that Sgt Hook, deployed in afghanistan needs help with operation shoe fly

Da Goddess is having trouble with her washing machine

Dana is overdue, and ready for a new birthday.

moxie decries stem cell research, but not for the typical reason.

and you just have to go read this story about bullfrogs byOg


  1. A group of 26 retired U.S. diplomats and military officers said Wednesday that President Bush should be voted out of office in November for damaging U.S. national security interests and America’s standing in the international community.

    Among the group are 20 ambassadors, appointed by presidents of both parties, other former State Department officials and military leaders whose careers span three decades.

    Prominent members include retired Marine Gen. Joseph P. Hoar, commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East during the administration of Bush’s father; retired Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., ambassador to Britain under President Bill Clinton and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under President Ronald Reagan; retired Adm. Stansfield Turner, former head of the Central Intelligence Agency; retired Gen. Merrill A. “Tony” McPeak, former Air Force chief of staff; and Charles Freeman, former ambassador to Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf war,

    Also included is Jack F. Matlock, who was appointed by Reagan as ambassador to the Soviet Union and retained the post under the first President Bush, and William C. Harrop, the first President Bush’s ambassador to Israel and four African countries.

    Comment by stevo — June 17, 2004 @ 1:03 am

  2. Stevo points to political statements made by political types (and when one gets to flag officer rank in the military, one is by definition these days a politician). They are making an arguement based on political motivations (ie, we disagree with W’s policies). Mlah points to personal motivations (vice political), which point out character flaws (this guy will say and do anything for political expediency; he has lied and defamed us, and no one is challenging him; he gave comfort and aid to the enemy in North Vietnam, and worked directly against his own country, by uttering these defamations and untruths; therefore we have problems with the idea of his becoming the President). They are not debating a political policy.

    As for the policies of W, our presence in Iraq and all that. Polls still show the nation split on that issue, despite the best efforts of the President’s political opposition, not to mention the mass media, to paint the whole affair as a shambles. Moreover, a true accounting of the undertaking and its effectiveness will take years, well beyond 2008.

    Speaking of troop commitments that were clearly not in our nation’s best interest, there being no threat to our national security engendered by the situation at hand. I recall the President (or was it his Chairman JCS, or even both of them together) sitting in front of a Congressional panel promising that our troops would be home by Christmas. They weren’t. In fact, some 8 years later, they remain in country. During that eight or more years, the country has stabililzed despite pockets of fighting flaring up, despite grumblings from certain of the natives of that country. The Balkans is actually looking promising for the future. But had we taken those troops out of the former Yugoslavia after only a year or two, the successes we had seen would all be rendered moot.

    France was against us going into Iraq? Chirac was on Saddam’s payroll. Germany was against us going into Iraq? Germany was building up dictator Saddam’s infrastructure. Russia? China? Both implicated. The UN? Ever hear of the Oil-for-Food Program? It was absolutely corrupted under Mr Annan. All of these whiners in the world pissed off about us going into Iraq were culpable in Saddam’s continuance of power and the brutal ways he exercised it. A dozen years of continuing UN resolutions demanding that Saddam stop, no really, stop it, we mean it now, don’t make us debate and come up with another resolution! All those years made the UN look as effective as the League of Nations.

    The US acted upon the intelligence that the UN acknowledged. The US carried out the actions implied by the threats (and subsequently authorized) in all those UN resolutions. But we killed the cash cows of Mssrs. Annan, Chirac, et al. And so they’re pissed off about it.

    Comment by yup — June 17, 2004 @ 7:49 am

  3. steve-o is juan cole, or rather again. don’t think it’s a different person. where did you plagiarize the above opinion from this time?

    the naval officers in question were all pointing to character flaws in the democratic nominee, and very specifically not endorsing president bush. just discrediting kerry. by discrediting his character.

    you cite opinions about bush being wrong on issues. maybe some of them he is, some of them he isn’t. are you questioning his character?

    you also do not claim kerry to be a better alternative.

    anybody nut kerry

    Comment by mlah — June 17, 2004 @ 10:42 am

  4. “are you questioning his character?”
    it’s beyond hilarious for anyone to compare Kerry’s and W’s Vietnam-era service. two words for y’all: “fortunate son”.

    Comment by Juan Cole — June 17, 2004 @ 10:58 am

  5. “two words for y’all: “fortunate son”.”

    Yep. Kerry’s married-into billions vs Dubya’s earned millions make him soooo much better. After all, using every moment of your life to weasel your way into somone elses cash is a good thing, right? First the (Offshore)(Outsourced) Ketchup money, next the USA, soon, the world. Pretty impressive for a guy who can’t make up his mind if he voted for or against the war.

    Comment by og — June 17, 2004 @ 3:48 pm

  6. Yeah, Dubya, to steal from Steve Martin, “was born a poor black child…”, and, by dint of all his hard work, LOST millions of his Daddy’s friends money. And snorted the rest.

    Comment by Juan Cole — June 17, 2004 @ 9:43 pm

  7. no no no, that was bill that was born a poor black child. and kerry is trying to follow in his footsteps.

    oh wait, your right, kerry’s not following in billy’s footsteps, he’s following in teddy’s footsteps.

    how long before he kills some girl in a river?

    dubya had a substance problem? least he never killed anyone. do you think teddy is acceptable on the u.s. political stage? then you think dubya is ok too. unless you’re a hypocrite….

    Comment by mlah — June 17, 2004 @ 9:51 pm

  8. the kennedys could be very corrupt. teddy should have faced charges for manslaughter. i don’t know exactly why that didn’t happen. anyway, tk isn’t running for prez, kerry isn’t guilty by association.

    re: Mrs. Heinz-Kerry, I do believe she had some say in whom she married. that goes for his first rich wife, too. are you trying to protect these damsels in distress? you missed your chance, og, to stand up at their weddings– now you should “forever hold your peace”, cuz it’s none of your business.

    Comment by stevo — June 18, 2004 @ 1:49 am

  9. nothing either one of those two women said in any way effects j kerry’s status of the ‘fotunate son’ except for the two words… ‘i do’

    the man has never worked an honest day in his life.

    Comment by mlah — June 18, 2004 @ 2:06 am

  10. “Fortunate Son” was a song by Creedence Clearwater Revival complaining about how *some* sons of the powerful evaded getting sent to Viet Nam, dildo.

    Behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth, who is listed as the group’s media contact; eternal Kerry antagonist (assigned to Kerry in 1971 by Nixon trickster Charles Colson) Houston attorney John E. O’Neill, law partner of Spaeth’s late husband, Tex Lezar; and retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, a cigar-chomping former Vietnam commander once described as “the classic body-count guy” who “wanted hooches destroyed and people killed.”

    Comment by stevo — June 18, 2004 @ 3:06 am

  11. Stevo (or The Gus or Juan Cole or whomever you are being today), I think that in the modern age of the 21st Century, the fact that someone snorted coke, boozed it up, smoked pot (but didn’t inhale!), or raved on Vitamin X at a New Year’s party IN THEIR YOUTH is irrelevant. Your and my parent’s generation rendered the whole ‘Reefer Madness’ thing pretty much moot (those radicals!), and many of our generation (yourself included?) have carried on the grand tradition of wasting their minds on these substances. Youth of course means into one’s 20s, but I think we are also redefining youth to mean any age up to about 35 or 40 (40 is the new 30!)….but that all depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is, doesn’t it?

    Pray (but not to any God, for that would be too Taliban-y, wouldn’t it?) tell where you got the ‘fact’ that Roy Hoffman was described as “the classic body-count guy” etc? And wow, you raise the evil spectre of Nixon in this thread! Extra points to you (although points don’t count in this game, our rules are much like ‘Who’s line is it anyway?’).

    You say that Teddy K, the Ultimate Killer, is not standing for this election. Yet you try to condemn the Swift Boat Veterans for being in bed with a Nixon operative (oh, the horror!). Isn’t TK the brains behind JK? That’s the way it seems from the gasseous emissions emanating from DC. (Perchance it’s different there in Upstate, or Michigan, or San Francisco or wherever you happen to be)

    You — who have nothing but scorn for the military and its veterans, as evidenced in your postings about us being from poor backgrounds easily brainwashed into believing right wing hype (how you explain the likes of Crowe, one of Billy’s first and loudest supporters?), and doubtlessley have never come nearer to a uniform than a baseball game — dare to decry the comparison of W’s and JK’s Vietnam era service. Go strap on a second generation jet fighter and be vectored out to intercept a bogey. Go ride a swift boat in the line of fire. Then talk trash. I remind you that JK himself said that what one did vis-a-vis service in Vietnam is irrelevant in today’s political society. Of course, that was before he pinned his entire Presidential campaign on his 4-month long combat record (and in defense of that true friend of national security, Billy Boy).

    JK came home from Vietnam and immediately started attacking his brothers in arms. Probably to get a little closer to Hanoi Jane (meow!), but he said a lot of very hurtful and untrue things. But if he believes them to be true, then why would you want to support a self-confessed war criminal? And then he used that campaign of lies to launch his political career, during which he has established a rather lengthy voting record on legislation of import.

    So, look at his actions (yes, heroic in combat, but oh so nasty once he got home); look at his political record (why does he cry foul every time his legislative history is brought up?). Debate those things, rather than trying to relive the Vietnam War like someone’s radical parents did.

    As for those Swift Boat Veterans, since the major media won’t give them the time of day (go on, read the links Mlah pointed to), and their message negatively impact the JK campaign, then the only way they can get their message out must be to turn to someone not supporting JK, right? Are you saying that what they are claiming is untrue? Because it is tainted by the media manager’s political affiliations? Go on, say it’s all lies. These people know JK from his most stressful time, they saw how he acted, and they know what happened over there. Based on this knowledge, they are saying that JK is not fit to be President of the United States. Are they saying this about Lieberman, Dean or Edwards? Nope, only JK. Are they endorsing W? Nope. And that takes me back to my original posting to this thread.

    Comment by yup — June 18, 2004 @ 7:24 am

  12. Geez, you guys still give in to the bait?

    Comment by Madame Butterfly — June 18, 2004 @ 7:38 am

  13. come on MB, nibble a little bit!

    “Fortunate Son” was a ccr song about privleged youth skipping vietnam? wow! i never knew that! dildo. that is the life jfk is living now. at least, once they are both privleged, dubya worked for a living, and earned his own welath. jk schmoozed his way into wealth. just like he has schmoozed his way into the democratic limelight.

    who would you prefer to be pres? someone who can only schmooze? or someone who works? bourgeois? or proletariot? come on… let’s get you on record.

    Comment by mlah — June 18, 2004 @ 9:41 am

  14. “damsels in distress?”

    How about liberal attention whores.
    How the country is run, and whom by, is very much my business, as much as that scares you.
    Sorry, you lose. Next!

    Comment by og — June 18, 2004 @ 3:26 pm

  15. “dubya had a substance problem? least he never killed anyone.”

    “Isn’t TK the brains behind JK?”
    You mean as in the way Cheney and Rove are for W? Not even.

    “You — who have nothing but scorn for the military and its veterans…”
    I respect them. It’s not their fault. I resent the civilian leadership using them unnecessarily.

    “Debate those things (JK’s actions and political record), rather than trying to relive the Vietnam War like someone’s radical parents did.”
    My parents were squares, man. Anyway, Mlah started this, did he not, by bringing up the Swift Boat group, who are trying to “relive the Vietnam War”?

    “dubya worked for a living, and earned his own welath. jk schmoozed his way into wealth. just like he has schmoozed his way into the democratic limelight. who would you prefer to be pres? someone who can only schmooze? or someone who works? bourgeois? or proletariot?”

    jeezus, you’re so insane. they’re both super-elites. if getting set up in companies by your daddy’s buddies is working for a living, where do i apply? hey, are you saying W can’t schmooze with best of them?! liar! alas, they failed anyway. and i’m pretty sure that voters have had something to do with JK getting in the Democratic limelight…

    Comment by nixon — June 19, 2004 @ 4:26 am

  16. The problem with trolls is that they don’t get out and experience life. Oh sure, they might work (but at what?), they might party, or go to college, or whatever, but do they really experience the “true” life. Having been in the unfortunate grip of the left-wing thinking, I can tell you that they just don’t get it.

    Try investigating child abuse in the middle of drug city (NYC), guaranteed they’re gone in a month.

    Try working as an city cop, less than a month.

    Try pushing a 7.5 lb basketball (actually they’re peanuts) out of yourself (2 within a year of eachother) and then having to worry that some extremist is going to run into some place that they are at and blow themselves up. It’s not enough that we have to worry about the everyday issues around raising kids, but also worry about the erosion of today’s society where the violence of today’s youth has worsened to such an extent that school is just not safe anymore. and you can thank the liberals for that since apparently every behavior is an expression of their “inner pain”, has an excuse, and that all they need is a hug (or drugs).

    Try basic training and put your life on the line for your country, which you probably say you love, but just not the current administration. Well, you know, I’m sick of hearing that crap!
    Put yourself in the shoes of the opposing ideology. You can’t.

    My husband has worked at a diagnostic center for teens for the past 13 years and seen the change over time of how the youths of today are worse than when he started.

    Try telling your crap to the Vets that are probably living right in your neighborhood. I was just at a meeting for Vets and you could see how passionate they were (and they weren’t even talking politics). The majority of Vets that I’ve read about and seen don’t support Kerry. When over the past 25+ years has Kerry actually went to Veterans’ meetings or gettogethers? Up until recently, there was no indication that he ever paid attention to his fellow Men-In-Arms. Was Kerry ever in the Honor Guard and attended any Veterans’ funerals? He probably wouldn’t because of how he felt about fellow soldiers (unless it was a photo-op). That’s what today’s Vets talk about.

    If you are so against the war and anti-Bush, then go run for office or just go be a human shield or something.

    You’re wrong about most people on the right, where they come from and who they are. Just stop being a pea-brained little troll and do something worthwhile for a change because obviously it’s not protecting this Nation or our kids that is your goal!

    Comment by CJ — June 19, 2004 @ 10:24 am

  17. CJ,
    what was your experience “in the unfortunate grip of the left-wing thinking”?

    Comment by davis-ingel — June 19, 2004 @ 10:39 am

  18. gus, didn’t you read her comment?

    Comment by mlah — June 19, 2004 @ 12:49 pm

  19. yes, dave, i did read her shrill, self-righteous, clueless comment. that’s why i was so intrigued about her previous life as a leftist.
    the vet in my apt bldg recently put a folded-up flag on the ground to silently protest all his fellow Men-in-Arms getting blown away in Iraq.
    did Liberalism make Rush do pain-killers? i fail to see how it’s made anyone more violent. i’d love to hear what she bases that on.
    i assume most conservatives are at least slightly racist, at least slightly greedy, at least slightly lost in the prison of religion, at least slightly more inclined to follow strong authority figures instead of thinking for themselves.

    Comment by poor rush — June 20, 2004 @ 5:28 am

  20. Oh, I see. So what you are saying is that you base your opinions of those on the right on what? A couple right wingers you’ve met who happen to fit into your nice little narrow-minded description.

    I’ll tell you what my experience was you little troll:

    I grew up in a small town in upstate NY. My parents were die-hard dems, definitely to the left. We had no cares in the world because nothing affected our little piece of the world. I grew up in the late 60s and 70s, right during the hub of the shift to the left. At one point we had rented an apartment to some very good friends of ours: John and Laurie. Laurie was white, John was black. Again, this was in small-town USA. The neighbors did not like it one bit and my father, who is a very quiet man, almost came to blows with our one neighbor over having an interracial couple living next door.
    I was heavily influenced by my parents and listened as they consistently criticized Reagan and other republicans. I thought they were right.

    This ideology was carried with me all the way through college and into NYC. I thought I could change the world, working in social services to help others. I even had voted for Clinton and Dinkins the first time around.

    Fortunately, I started seeing things the way they really were. I saw the lies the dems threw around at their whim. I investigated child abuse in Harlem and Washington Heights. I lived through 3, count them, 3, riots in the city. I watched cops die under Dinkins, who gave them no comfort when one of them fell protecting the asses of people such as yourself. I walked through combat zones just to get lied to by some drug addict who couldn’t care for their own kids let alone a new baby who was born addicted to cocaine. Did you ever hear of the excuse “I was taking Tylenol with codeine during pregnancy” or “I was at a party where they were smoking crack”. I heard them all. When you have to look a kid in the eyes and tell them that it is ok, that they will not be living with the stepfather or uncle or whoever and that it was not their {kid} fault that they were sexually abused, it starts changing you. It opens your eyes that there is true evil in this world and it can be across the globe, or right in your backyard. Go ask Judge Judy. I was in front of her enough to know how she felt about this.

    One Vet. Talk to more. Go to Vets meetings, they are usually open to the public. There will always be those Vets who do not want war because some of them have been through it and don’t want to see it again. But sometimes evil has to be eliminated the hard way. That’s just plain life!

    And here we go again: I am an Agnostic, my husband is an Atheist. My husband is also an artist and a child welfare administator. We live in an area that is mixed with all different cultures and if you would want to go slam some KKK rally, we’d be right there with you. I value what my parents gave me but that does not mean that I will have their same philosophy on life.

    But since you have no clue about anything that I just talked about and would never get off your own pedestal to ever experience it. You have absolutely no common sense and if you did, you don’t use it. I do. I may not be as technical as maybe mlah or my husband is, but I think I have enough education and experience in my many years to justify my beliefs. So, You can sit at your computer day in and day out, redefining yourself everytime with different names. You can listen to the lies the left throws out, but remember this, until you put yourself in others’ shoes, you will continue to be the little troll brat that you are now because all I see is that your purpose is to declare your opinions without any real back-up (except maybe with those “sites” you so admire) all in the name of what? Causing anarchy, chaos? Or just plain idiocy!

    Oh, and if you can’t see the change in youth today and the erosion of society then you are probably from the generation that has been desensitized to it all. Apparently you have no kids to speak of since most parents I talk to, including my friends who are on the left, say the same exact thing about what is happenning today: It’s getting worse, there’s no accountability to or responsibility for behaviors. Again, a left-wing philosophy.

    So, just get over it. I’ve had my say and you’re getting woefully tiresome to the rest of us.

    Comment by CJ — June 20, 2004 @ 11:59 am

  21. On the subject of the military and veterans: “I respect them. It’s not their fault.” Wow. How condescending. Much what I would expect from someone like Gus (who doesn’t even know who he is going to be from day to day).

    “Anyway, Mlah started this.” Said uber-troll. I might expect to hear this sort of defense from my three year old (truth in advertising, she can’t speak yet, she’ll be three in a couple of years).

    “the Swift Boat group, who are trying to “relive the Vietnam War”?” The Swift Boat group came onto the scene when the John F. Kerry for President 2004 campaign began using their likeness, and their actions during the Vietnam War, as the center piece for their campaign. The Swift Boat veterans wanted to set the record straight, and have given their views of the Man, the Myth, that is John Kerry. They have measured him, weighed him, and found him wanting. They have had the opportunity to see this man up close and personal, in the most stressful of situations. Their views count. Oh, I forgot, “It’s not their fault.” Weak-willed neanderthals that they are, they’ve been brainwashed by the evil, vast right wing conspiracy that Nixon bequeathed us.

    “”Isn’t TK the brains behind JK?” You mean as in the way Cheney and Rove are for W? Not even.” So,in Gussy’s world view, the evil Right can have puppet masters, but not the righteous Left? Snork!

    “least he never killed anyone.“ Hmmm, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Ron Brown, J. Boorda, Rwanda, the Philippines…..

    “shrill, self-righteous, clueless comment” Sorry Gus, that was me laughing there. I usually associate these words with the rantings of the hard-core leftists.

    “the vet in my apt bldg” Wow, Gus you sure get around. You know a whole veteran all by yourself! I’m so proud of you for expanding your world view. And to actually socialize with him, well, your compasisonate outreach is duly noted. I sing your comradely praise!

    “i assume most conservatives are at least slightly racist, at least slightly greedy, at least slightly lost in the prison of religion, at least slightly more inclined to follow strong authority figures instead of thinking for themselves.” Well, we can’t blame them, can we, since after all they are born with some kind of mutation making them weak willed neanderthals. Lucky for us, you liberal thinkers are there to lead us all into an enlightened society! You pay attention to the teachings of our savior Marx and you’ll be able to lead us into the promised Utopia!

    All praise to comrade Gus, for he alone among us can see the Way, the Truth, and the Light. His leadership will carry us into the era of sharing, caring, and social advancement! He will bring us to Peace. He will make us Happy! Hail, hail, hail!

    Comment by yup — June 20, 2004 @ 1:23 pm

  22. There is the personal behavior angle, but there is also the structural angle, how society is set up. Corporations wag the dog today. The bottom-line is eviscerating jobs for companies that pay precious little taxes anymore. Americans without health insurance jumped 3.6 million from ’99-’03. Adjusted for inflation, the poor’s earning power has been dropping since 1973. Working women are earning less (compared to a comparable man) than they did in 1983. You wanna talk about morality, good vs. evil? Guess what? Kids are still getting sexually abused in Bloomberg’s and GWB’s America. It has *nothing* to do with Liberalism, it’s just as likely to happen in conservative homes. And your solution is what, to yank even more funding for social services? Farm it out to some church-group?
    Alabama became the last state to repeal a ban against interracial marriage– in 2001– and 41% of the population voted against lifting the ban. Reagan made an early speech in the Mississippi town where 3 civil rights workers had been killed and didn’t mention that fact; indeed he went so far as to mention that he supported “state’s rights”, if you catch his drift. And GWB went to Bob Jones University, same deal. Look around and see who else is in the boat you’re in, honey. It’s a crying shame that you’ve lost the chutzpah your dad had. Bush is really great for the environment, too, what the fuck’s your problem? Oh, you’re a middle-class mom now, why the hell should you worry about anyone but your family? Yah, look out for all those Iraqi terrorists that want to kill them, they’re everywhere!!!

    Comment by poor rush — June 20, 2004 @ 2:29 pm

  23. putin just went on record as saying that russian intelligence had alerted the white house to the fact that iraq was planning terrorist attacks against u.s. interests, and persosn both in the u.s. and abroad. so next time you look around at all of those iraqi terrorist attacks that didn’t happen, you’re welcome ass munch.

    yup is male. we have kids too pinhead.

    you assume conervatives…. nice, type cast us. racist bitch. after all, sexism, anti-zionism, racism… they’re all the same thing, just a different target. guess that makes youa part of the liberal klan.

    women are making less now in relation to me than in ’83. lie. oh look, i cited as many facts as you did. characterize your opinions as such. read wendy mcelroy at

    corporations wag the dog? opinion. corps pay next to nothing in taxes? in some cases they pay none. that does need to be fixed. but hey, when the flat tax was discussed as a means of eliminatingdeductions and right offs, it was the taxocrats and their liberal media lapdogs who shot that plan down.

    bush is good for the environment too. turn your heater off this winter mother fucker. remember gw gets that for you. go ahead, turn the ac off right now. cali was all about the green shit. ’til those rolling blackouts started hitting em.

    you point out children are just as likely to be molested under conservative admins… that means ditto for liberal administrations too.

    typical democrat debate tactics. you lose on a point so you try to change the subject.

    swiftboat organization answers kerry’s claims of hero status in vietnam by calling him essentially nothing more than a boob. they say he is unfit. if you really respect those military types, you won’t try to put someone in office over them who is unfit. you don’t like gwb? fine. vote nader, lieberman, moseley-braun, or kucinich. all of them are preferably to JF’nK

    Comment by mlah — June 20, 2004 @ 3:19 pm

  24. “Americans without health insurance jumped 3.6 million from ’99-’03.” What, versus the time period 1901-1905? Does that include people who lost their insurance because they changed/lost their jobs? Or does it include all the illegals that entered the country during that time period and started using the health care system here? All of the newborns during that time period? What? Give us substance, not soundbites. Save the soundbites for your indoctrination sessions. You would prefer the type of socialized medicine that is practised in Canada and Europe? Where you wait for 5 years to get a simple procedure done? Where your claim is denied if it’s too much trouble to arrange? You talk to any of your Euro-friends about their health care? I sure have. You want me to decide what medical procedures you should be allowed to have? I can do that, I’ll take your tax dollars for making those kinds of decisions. I certainly have no medical training on which to base my decisions, but who cares? When it’s a government decision, it’s all about managing federal dollars toward making the largest voter constituencies happy!

    Hmmmm, you paint all conservatives with a racist brush. Two words for ya, there, Gussy boy: Robert Byrd.

    What’s with your fixation on Rush? He’s great entertainment. I hate to tell you this, Gus, but he’s more entertaining than you are. Oh, I understand, by attacking Rush, you attack Conservatives in general. OK, then. Michael Moore. Fat and slovenly. There. Does that hurt you and all your liberal pals? Didn’t think so. Hint re the Rush thing: that dog don’t hunt, boy.

    “Adjusted for inflation, the poor’s earning power has been dropping since 1973.” Despite the billions and billions being thrown at the poverty issue under Johnson’s social programs? Gee whiz, I guess we should just throw more money into the abyss, huh? The programs can’t be wrong, after all, because they have only the best of intentions behind them.

    Flat tax, no deductions. ‘Nuff said. (But of course, that would put millions out of work, from actuaries to IRS bureaucrats…….)

    “Alabama became the last state to repeal a ban against interracial marriage– in 2001… blah blah blah” Again, that racist thing being pasted wholecloth to the conservatives (and apparently, Yankee Gus thinks that means all Southren folk, too). Michigan still carried a law that makes uttering an obscenity in public illegal, until at least a couple of years ago. Backwards, illiterate Yankees! Haven’t they ever heard of the First Amendment? See, I can paint with a wide brush too.

    “Bush is really great for the environment, too, what the fuck’s your problem?” Language, young man. I’ll tell your mom! Yup, blame W for all the pollution in our environment. Blame W for making oil expensive. Stupid W, he even wants to drill for oil in the tundra, where no one lives! Stupid W, he had the chutzpah to want to set aside millions for research into alternative fuels. Well, the Liberal movement has successfully stopped all of his initiatives to fix our energy problems. And their propaganda machine has even made it seem like it’s all W’s fault that nothing is being done about it!

    Hey Gussy! Where do our Greenist European friends get most of their electricity from? Nuclear power. Oh, hey, they also have this neat thing where turbines sit in the shallows being driven by the tides to produce electricity. The Liberal ecological warriors killed nuclear power in the US some 20 years ago. Billions were being spent on nuclear power plants until they were shut down under popular protest by the likes of the Sierra Club. Billions wasted in half-completed infrastructure, which is no longer viable. Very few coal burning plants were built, despite the explosion in energy consumption. When coastal turbines were proposed for the California coastline, environazi’s killed the issue dead. Don’t mess with the poor acquatic wildlife! Then we started getting blackouts and shortages. Oh, it’s Ken Lay’s fault! And he was secretly backed by W, Cheney and the rest of the vast right wing conspiracy. Lay and his fellow executives probably committed crimes (watch it, Gus, defendants are assumed innocent until PROVEN guilty), for which they will pay if convicted. Is the answer to nationalize power companies in the US? Hey comrade, read what I had to say on the health care issue.

    “Oh, you’re a middle-class mom now, why the hell should you worry about anyone but your family?” Funny, seems to me that people who attain the middle class, and/or who accept the responsibilities of raising a family, have become vested in the well being of their society by definition. Unlike single white technocrats in their late 30s, who only want to go out and drop some X at a rave and enjoy avant guard art.

    Gus, get a life. You don’t enjoy getting picked on here at Mlah’s place, then find yourself another sandbox.

    Comment by yup — June 20, 2004 @ 4:09 pm

  25. Thanks mlah and yup! you said it!

    God, troll, you’re such a classless idiot! Of course my major goal in life would be to protect my family! Wouldn’t it be your’s? I’d be afraid to see how you would handle your kids in today’s society. I guess when my kids are grown I will be able to relax and not worry that some sociopath won’t take them away. I bet the parents of those killed in the planes and on the ground of 9/11 felt that way!!!!!

    And yes, I do mean the well being of society! I guess you have to have something happen to you before you react. You have no clue about prevention. Do they even teach that out where you are?

    “Middle-class mom” is very mild compared to what I am when you trolls have the nerve to tell us how we should see things when you’ve never been there! Tell me something different! Have you ever been there? What experience do you have that gives you this right? I don’t pretend in the leaast bit to understand someone who has a mental illness, or had a parent die, or been abused. I just let empathy guide me. something obviously you lack. Do you volunteer? Do you work in the “helping” profession? Hmmmm…

    Obviously I have to spell things out for you. I never said that liberal homes were the only place that kids get abused. When the pendulum swung toward the left, so did the excuses, rationalizations, etc. where there became no accountability for behaviors. We diagnose our kids everytime they misbehave and we put fruitless public social programs in place to “help” those who abuse or do drugs. Yes, church groups actually have been known to help people because most people do belong to a faith. It actually gives them a sense of community and they know the people running the program. In my state, we expect that programs will assist the client in locating a place they can worship if they so choose.

    Oh, and ELF really helps the environment? Like they did when they burned all those Hummers and caused more pollution at that one moment than all the Hummers would do over several years. And all the other times they did something for the environment but somehow caused more devastation (I remember a story about frogs being let go and somehow some other near-extinct creature got devastated-I’ll have to find the story). They even said that they were going to burn things down just to get people’s attention. Yeah, great.

    And, oh my god, I forgot. If I had just been in the World Trade Center on 9/11/01 instead of when I was there with my kids on 8/9/01 or 7/01, maybe I would’ve seen the terrorists! Or maybe if my husband had just moved his training about 30 miles due west of where he was on 9/11 he might’ve been under the plane that hit shanksville!

    So just shoo shoo away fly troll and get a life!

    Comment by CJ — June 20, 2004 @ 5:42 pm

  26. Lemme see if I get this straight:
    1. Liberalism causes school violence and sexual abuse.
    2. Most bigots don’t vote Republican.
    3. Reagan and Bush 1 appointees hold less sway than a handful of grunts.
    4. Ted Kennedy, “the Ultimate Killer”, is also responsible for “Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Ron Brown, J. Boorda, Rwanda, the Philippines…..”
    5. Bush and Cheney don’t survive on a steady diet of corporate cock, dashing all taxes and environmental regulation and enforcement to please big donors.
    6. Our for-profit health care system isn’t melting down and leaving folks in the cold.
    7. Rush isn’t a mean-spirited hypocrite.
    8. The rich aren’t getting richer and the poor aren’t getting poorer.
    9. You all would love to live next to a nuc-u-lur power plant.
    10. Ken Lay is innocent.
    11. Middle-class parents don’t have a tendency to be complacent NIMBY’s sitting on their ever-fattening asses.
    12. Ecstasy is an Evil, self-indulgent drug.
    13. It’s your “empathy” that guides you to want social funding redirected into the bottomless maw of the Pentagon.
    14. I subscribe to Marxism and environmental terrorism.
    15. The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth isn’t partisan.
    16. NOT!
    Tell me more about YOUR assumptions of ME!

    Comment by poor rush — June 21, 2004 @ 2:41 am

  27. no, you have it crooked.
    1. liberalism allows school violence and sexual abuse.
    2. people are the same, liberals and conservatives are equally bigoted, although you may be more so than others.
    3. i don’t understand the statement
    4. he had more sway than gwb over bosnia, rwanda, somalia…
    5. dashing all taxes? i’m still paying. environmental regulations? is the catalytic converter still on your car?
    6. no it’s not melting down. how was it in 1900? 1950? the fact that it does not provide for all, only those who can pay, is not melting down.
    7. rush is not a mean spirited hypocrite. taking the drugs was hypocritical, but he survives off of the buffoonery of you liberals, and he loves you all for it.
    8. in 1973 dollars? the poor are not getting poorer. they are getting richer. as we continue to expand the definition of poor, their status of living continues to improve, in relation to real poor people.
    9. nuclear power plant? why not?
    10. ken lay? who gives a fuck? let the jury decide, oh, but that’s right, you’re a knee jerk reactionary. he was guilty by the very definition of his conservativeness.
    11. no they don’t. the poor (and liberals) have a tendency to be lazy nancies, sit on their fat asses while living off of the work of the middle class.
    12. i wouldn’t know
    13. who said that? i want most social programs ended.
    14. marxism. i don’t know if you are an enviroterrorist it’s not partisan. just anti-kerry.
    16. YEP
    i don’t have any assumptions of you, only opinions formed after reading your misdirected banter.

    Comment by mlah — June 21, 2004 @ 9:47 am

  28. “1. liberalism allows school violence and sexual abuse.” Everything’s just groovy with me, man! Get a fuckin grip, scumbag.
    “2. liberals and conservatives are equally bigoted” holy moley. gays, feminism, race, you’re on the wrong side of history, by and large.
    3. Reagan and Bush 1 appointees hold less sway than a handful of grunts. “i don’t understand the statement.” see my first post to this thread.
    4. not worth answering
    5. ditto
    “6. no it’s not melting down. how was it in 1900? 1950? the fact that it does not provide for all, only those who can pay, is not melting down.” “We’re watching the meltdown of the medical system” –Dr. David Palmisano, president of the AMA!
    “As a microdelivery system, medicine provides increasingly exquisite molecular elegance. As a macrodelivery system, it is falling apart.” –Eliot Sorel, professor psychiatry at GWU School of Medicine and former president of the DC Medical Society.
    “7. rush is not a mean spirited hypocrite. taking the drugs was hypocritical, but he survives off of the buffoonery of you liberals, and he loves you all for it.” He’s got his head so far up his ass, he can lick his own tonsils.
    “8. the poor are not getting poorer.”
    “Real earnings of production workers dropped by 14 per cent in the private sector from 1973 to 1995. Median weekly earnings of all men fell, while those of women stagnated.”
    “9. nuclear power plant? why not?” go, man, go!
    “10. ken lay? who gives a fuck?” i dunno, maybe some of the people who lost their retirement savings? it’s not about his conservatism per se, it’s the whole greasy scam and laissez-faire BS.
    “11. the poor (and liberals) have a tendency to be lazy nancies” Oh, get off your whole Welfare Drama Queen act. The tiny #’s of fraudsters couldn’t hold a candle to the corruption in the Pentagon and corporate welfare. My family was on welfare for a year after my dad split, shit happens to real people.
    “12. i wouldn’t know” (Ecstasy) That much is obvious 🙂
    “14. marxism” If you can’t get anything else thru yer thick head, learn the difference b/t modern American Liberalism and Marxism/Leninism/Maoism. Your exaggerations are lucicrous and made you look like an ill-informed demagogue. But that’s probably what you are.
    “ it’s not partisan. just anti-kerry.” hilarity ensues once again.

    Comment by poor rush — June 21, 2004 @ 5:55 pm

  29. Ah Gus, for a minute there I thought you mighta dropped out of the debate here. Guess you were just trippin on some X, huh? You pay taxes on the purchase of that dosage, boy? You drive while trippin? If the answer to the first part was ‘no’ then shame on you! Taxes run our welfare (er, social) programs in this country, in case you hadn’t heard. What sort of entrepreneur laissez faire BS are you forcing on us by skipping out on your taxes? If the answer to the second part was ‘no’ then I won’t have to scream bloody murder at you for driving under the influence.

    And how many times do I have to chide you for your language? This is a family friendly joint, here, pal. See, that’s one of the problems with Liberals today, they’ve all but killed cordial debate in our society. The only thing they’re capable of doing to get their message across is scream, chant, and try to drown out any vocal opposition to their message. They must fear the truth too much.

    Interesting that you link the Drunken One to the deaths in Rwanda etc. I had only heard he personally killed one person. He got away scott free, no questions asked (all that rum running money of his daddy’s, plus the political clout it bought in the persons of his brothers, sure paid off!). Hence, the Ultimate Killer. Him and OJ. I was actually alluding to the guy who lost his cool and yelled at a Brit during an interview last week (watch BBC on Wednesday night, folks).

    How many times do I gotta say this: politicians (the appointees) are politicians, and they talk about policies. Policies can be debated (oh, forgot, not with Liberals, they shout and scream to drown out debate). The Sailors actually shared oxygen with young LTjg JFK. (Not the PT109 driver, pay attention and don’t get lost here.) They bear first-hand witness to his actions under stress, not to mention his managerial skills (that’s one of the things officers do, you know). In specific instances, he was brave (going back to pick up one of his enlisted men). I bet even YOU could be brave once in your life, Gus. Aside from those instances, these veterans have a problem with JFK, and they are letting the world know about it. BECAUSE HE DRAGGED THEM INTO THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN! They are not talking about policies, they are talking about the bearing of the man who would be king. er, President. But they’re just a handful of grunts. So they don’t count (they can’t help it, they’re just week willed…..). The only ones who count are those who hold extremely impressive titles (Former Ambassador to Microslavia). And who coincidentally have the same point of view as the Liberal in question. That’s you Gussy boy.

    “holy moley. gays, feminism, race, you’re on the wrong side of history” Well, thanks for watching the language on that one, at least. So, there is no such thing as a gay conservative, or conservative feminist, or a conservative non-white person? Or is it that those who fall into that category have been excommunicated from their {sexual preference/gender/color} group? Because only Liberals from those groups count. Gus, you are a true bigot. Sad thing is that you don’t even know it.

    You named Alabamians racist a couple of days ago, obviously intending to smear Southreners (assumed to be conservative Republicans, right?) in their entirety. What’s the racial makeup of the state? What’s the political composition of the state? (Hint: mostly Democrat) Of those who voted against repealing that law you love so much, what percentages belong to which political party? to which ethnic group? to which religious affiliation? to which gender? You might be agog at what you find out if you actually research the issue.

    Had you actually been paying attention to the postings in this and other threads, Gus, you would notice that Mlah has actually agreed with you on the coporate tax thing. It’s only a matter of degree where you diverge. Why do you demand that we pay attention to your rantings, when you don’t to ours?

    As for Ken Lay, HE IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW or pleads guilty by his own admission (much like your boy JFK has named himself guilty of War Crimes). Unless you want to oust the Constitution and our legal system for that good old standby of a lynch mob (no offense to Jeesica). And before you say that only conservatives participated in those, read your history. If Lay and his ilk are found guilty, they will be punished. Why you don’t jump all over the likes of Geo. Soros? He personally triggered events which caused millions of people to lose their savings when he engineered the collapse of the British pound sterling, not to mention those Asian currencies he attacked in 1997. But he’s a good guy, right, because he hates W just like you do?

    “He’s got his head so far up his ass, he can lick his own tonsils.” Gus, you are truly a poetic master. I formally invoke rubber/glue on you!

    Constitution provides for the federal defense of the realm. Not the federal feeding, clothing, and sheltering of the citizens (never mind Mazlo’s other goals). Guess they don’t teach that part in Professor Juan’s courses, huh?

    You cite a Naval Postgraduate School link as justification for your rant. The article in question is from the Financial Times. That’s not an ‘official US government’ source you’re using there, boy. Just like with the Library of Congress citations you previously used. BTW, you can also find some pretty good pr0n in the Library. Does that mean that it’s officially US government sanctioned or produced?

    Your family was only on welfare for a year. Then what? You all starve to death? You all disappear from the face of the earth? Didn’t think so. The welfare programs are intended for short-term needs such as you went through. Conservatives from our grandfathers’ generation lost that fight with Franklin D. Government programs are a fact of life, but their whole purpose is temporary assistance. Take this money and get on your feet, learn a trade, find a job, whatever. Didn’t you notice the career welfarists when you went down to the county office to take care of the monthly paperwork? The ones who jump out of their Cadillac, smear dirt from the ground around their faces and clothes, then get this pathetic look on their face as they go plead for more money? Those are the people conservatives tend to complain about. You obviously don’t read what we all have to say here. You only care about your own private little rants.

    American Liberalism. Which party is that? What are their platform? Where do I find their official publications? Do they publish newletters? Commuinity events? Who are they? (This is your opening Gussy. Give us facts, not rants.)

    Gus, at this point I have to ask just WHAT you have done for our society? Have you served in any way? Americorps? Military (hahahaha)? Social worker? Or are you just another spoiled liberal who preaches while he takes from the till? We’re just supposed to feel blessed because you choose to live amongst us? Notice that many of Mlah’s posters have done their bit, and continue to do their bit, for their society and their country.

    Comment by yup — June 21, 2004 @ 7:13 pm

  30. Ah, yes, the Golden Age of Cordial Debate. When was that, exactly? Talk radio? McCarthy? Boss Tweed? Someone said blogging is much like early American pamphleteers, which were apparently pretty raucous. Get over it, is my advice. Or do like O’Reilly did to the kid whose father died in 9-11: “SHUT UP!”
    Legalize drugs and then I’ll pay taxes on them.
    Fine, some of JK’s men didn’t care for him 30 years ago. Some did. Some Republicans appointed by Reagan and Bush 1 think W is fucking up the world today, and I happen to give more credence to them. Some don’t. Que sera, sera. See ya in November.
    Sure there are gay, feminist and non-white conservatives. But that’s their problem 😉 I’m sure they have their reasons. But most from those groups are not, and there are a lot of reasons for that. Or haven’t you noticed?!?!
    Re: Alabama, it’s a red state, W won it 56% to Gore’s 41% in 2000. And the racial make-up is 71% white, 26% black. So, assuming that Gore got all the black vote, that would mean he got a total of 15% of the white vote, if my math is correct. But the point is that racists are no longer tolerated in the Dem party, while some Repubs still give them winking umbrage.
    Ooh, you saw thru my ruse about the Financial Times, dammit! I almost had you there with that nefarious organ of Int’l Socialism!
    “Why do you demand that we pay attention to your rantings, when you don’t to ours?” Actually, Dave said he no longer followed my links. And corporate tax breaks have always been a big part of the Repub party platform, so how can you vote with those weasels?
    I know you’re innocent until proven guilty, I was just blowing off some steam. KLay should be hanged in Enron Stadium a la Saudi Arabia.
    What are YOUR stats on welfare fraud? I tend to think it’s an overblown, hysterial, race-baiting myth.
    I’m a literacy volunteer. And tutor of French, though I get paid for that. Not as sexy as launching missiles, I know, but you gotta grow where you are planted.

    Comment by nixon — June 22, 2004 @ 7:24 am

  31. the golden age of cordial debate? nixon/kruschev. or don’t you remember that kitchen debate there little tricky dick?

    you can cuss some, don’t go over board or i’ll start deleting things. don’t give me no shit over censorship either.i’m not the govt, and the protections for freedom of the press do not apply to private citizens. my delete key works just fine. just don’t go overboard.

    you’ll pay taxes on the illegal drugs whether you like it or not. they’re called fines. and we’ll be collecting them. mr. van token.

    some of jk’s men didn’t care for him? some did? ok, march out that guy that did like him.

    yes i noticed there are a lot of reasons not to like the liberal party, like that racist policy called affirmative action. the liberals are racist my friend. that includes you. and you are actively slaving the non-working poor. do what i say boy! or i’ll let that mean old conservative make you work! yassah!

    percentages of votes in alabama? any party that receives 100% (or close to it) of the vote of an ethnic group is racist.

    i quit following your links because a: you were very obviously just trying to innundate us with literature. i’m not going to make refuting your crap a full time job. and b: you do NOT stay on subject. i’m not going to write a research paper on guatemala when i was just paying respects to reagan.

    you want stats on welfare fraud? how about persoanl experience? ask cj who commonly comments on my blog. she works in welafre in nyc (your digs) and has first hand experience with that.

    alabama is 71% white? where did you get that stat from?

    jeez, i should have known you were a french speaker.

    literacy volunteer? how many hours?

    Comment by mlah — June 22, 2004 @ 2:51 pm

  32. “racists are no longer tolerated in the Dem party” Huh? Grand-poobah Robert Byrd!

    “Golden Age of Cordial Debate” That was back when people could actually hold a debate without resort to every 4-letter word in their arsenal (sink, snow, twit, etc.). 4-letter words tended to cause ruckuses (pistols at dawn, sir). Even in the US Congress (late as 1854).

    O’Reilly’s show is his to run. Mlah’s blog is his to run. Unless you’re pulling a Communistic takeover in the name of ‘the people’? You, Mr Gus, are the loud, obnoxious whiner on Mlah’s show. Not the other way around.

    Have you run a statistical analysis on the votes in Alabama? In reference to the legal repeal you first cited, that is. Your ‘explanation’ is a pretty flimsy one. Much along the lines of: Saddam had WMDs and used them in the 1980s and 1990s. He never proved to us that he destroyed them. Thus we must assume he still has them. Hey, maybe you could get a job at CIA!

    Back to JF’nK. Politicians speak and you believe them. Normal citizens speak and you despise them. My, not a very socialist way of looking at our society, Gussy boy. Sounds pretty elitist to me. And since only Republicans are elitist, you must REALLY be a Republican attack dog!

    Comment by yup — June 22, 2004 @ 11:26 pm

  33. “any party that receives 100% (or close to it) of the vote of an ethnic group is racist.” like cuban-americans and repubs? it’s not racism, it’s who is perceived to be looking out for their interests.
    Republican Racism
    “alabama is 71% white? where did you get that stat from?”
    they stand for “free enterprise, limited gov’t, the rule of law, and a society built on a foundation of strong families”
    i volunteer 3 hours a week. not enough for you, i’m sure.
    “Back to JF’nK. Politicians speak and you believe them. Normal citizens speak and you despise them.” i don’t despise them. i just think you would also want to know what high-level Republican appointees think.
    “Hey, maybe you could get a job at CIA!” my dad was recruited by them in the early 60’s, but he just wanted to be a lawyer.
    ok, i’ll stop cussing for the sake of your sensitive ears.

    Comment by nixon — June 23, 2004 @ 2:49 am

  34. Wow, nice trolls you got here.

    Fortunate son stuff aside, the trolls are perfectly skipping over the fact that Kerry accused these men of horrible war crimes that were never proven, denied by all and to some extent disproven.

    The fact that he lied and used hyperbole to malign the service of these men has left many with scars, and speaks to Kerry’s character, in at LEAST the fact that he has never clarified or apologized for his earlier stories.

    As far as some right-wing group being behind the vets, I guess he paid these 50-something year-old men a bunch of cash to break doen and cry in front of a roomful of reporters, eh asshole?

    Comment by Bill from INDC — June 27, 2004 @ 1:29 am

  35. Geez, Bill, I just perused YOUR website/blog and I haven’t a clue how you can comment about the commentary HERE…….nice picture of Kerry as a hamster, btw………[/sarcasm off]

    Also, Disinfopedia has all the goods on the Swift Boat Vets including info on John O’Neill, Kerry’s nemesis that appeared on the Dick Cavett show debating Kerry back in the seventies…….

    Comment by Cub Fan — July 31, 2004 @ 9:56 am

  36. I’m new to this site, just browsing around

    Comment by Sara Sterling — November 6, 2004 @ 6:55 am

  37. Very good site, congratulations!

    Comment by Nick — February 9, 2006 @ 12:46 am

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